Org:Foundation/Bf-education/Meetings/Logs/2006 January 15th

(14:01:39) rcas has changed the topic to: Meeting Time
(14:01:48) rcas: Maybe wait just 5 more minutes
(14:02:11) elubie: k
(14:02:18) ***mifune gets some food then
(14:02:34) Gabio [n=gabio@modemcable208.1-201-24.mc.videotron.ca] entered the room.
(14:02:44) Gabio: someone?
(14:02:56) rcas: lots
(14:03:04) rcas: :)
(14:03:42) rcas: Agenda http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Bf-education/Meetings/Agenda_Next_Meeting
(14:03:47) yap [n=chatzill@204.Red-80-34-81.staticIP.rima-tde.net] entered the room.
(14:04:04) rcas has changed the topic to: Meeting Time :: Agenda http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Bf-education/Meetings/Agenda_Next_Meeting
(14:05:38) rcas: Meeting Agenda:
(14:05:38) rcas: 1. Define standard week day and time for Meetings
(14:05:38) rcas: 2. Who will actively be in "charge" of bf-docboard
(14:05:38) rcas: 3. The focus of each board
(14:05:38) rcas: 4. Define goals for 2006 for each board
(14:05:38) rcas: 5. Proposal for a better workflow between Devs and Docboard
(14:06:46) rcas has changed the topic to: 1. Meeting day / time
(14:07:02) rcas: I think we should define this
(14:07:24) rcas: so anyone would always know when the meeting is held
(14:07:55) rcas: I propose not using the same time as the #blendercoders channel
(14:08:18) rcas: People do tend to attend it and thus we should avoid overlapping
(14:08:36) elubie: yep, shouldn't overlap
(14:08:48) rcas: Maybe the Sunday's 14:00 GMT is a good time, or 13:00 GMT
(14:09:17) rcas: What do you guys say About it
(14:10:04) elubie: we should try to find out if someone is seriously interested to attend regularly but can't at this time.
(14:10:12) rcas: yes
(14:10:47) rcas: This meeting should use a two week meeting
(14:10:49) elubie: on the other hand a fixed time will get into people's mind and they often will set their schedule if interested, just needs to get established
(14:11:00) rcas: every two week there would be a meeting
(14:11:10) rcas: unless several things need to be decided
(14:11:18) elubie: yep, I think every other week should be enough
(14:11:21) rcas: or it is near a Release
(14:11:25) mifune: yes
(14:11:52) mifune: , every other week is fine
(14:12:27) rcas: So, since no one has objected against this, it will be held here every two weeks at 13:30 GMT
(14:12:53) rcas: I think it is reasonable
(14:12:58) rcas: Anyone objects ?
(14:13:01) aleppax: ok
(14:13:11) elubie: fine with me
(14:13:12) rcas: maccam912: any objection ?
(14:13:42) rcas: seems like he lives in the other end of the globe
(14:13:46) rcas: :)
(14:14:00) rcas: so, was hoping to get his feedback
(14:14:40) rcas: ok, settled then
(14:14:44) rcas: next item
(14:14:54) rcas has changed the topic to: 2. Who will actively be in "charge" of bf-docboard
(14:15:08) nemyax [i=nemyax@85.249.228.27] entered the room.
(14:15:14) rcas: I think Steffano is in charge of bf-docboard
(14:15:36) rcas: but according to some, he has been a bit away
(14:15:56) rcas: does anyone here know anything about this ?
(14:16:12) elubie: no
(14:16:23) rcas: I was hoping to have an active bf-docboard person I could talk to
(14:16:35) rcas: for coordination purposes
(14:16:58) rcas: between me (bf-education) and him (bf-docboard)
(14:16:58) aleppax: even in italian forums he has been  away last weeks
(14:17:20) elubie: maybe it's not the best time to decide this, Ton is very busy with orange plus the release is coming, so others might be busy too
(14:17:34) rcas: aleppax: yes, that was the feeling people passed on to me, even though he has written some stuff this week to the ml
(14:18:11) rcas: elubie: was checking if anyone here knew anything about it, to coordinate, else postpone to the next meeting
(14:18:19) elubie: rcas: did you try to mail him directly and ask?
(14:18:25) rcas: ok, looks like it is a postpone
(14:18:39) rcas: elubie: will do that, was hoping to get him here today
(14:18:45) elubie: if he's interested in helping coordinate between ML
(14:18:50) maccam912 left the room (quit: Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
(14:19:15) elubie: k, looks like postpone, yes
(14:19:22) rcas: next item then
(14:19:25) rcas has changed the topic to: 3. The focus of each board
(14:19:50) rcas: Well, guess not many people from docboard here to decide this
(14:20:04) rcas: But anyway, here is my own aim
(14:20:57) rcas: Bf-Education:
(14:20:57) rcas: - Teachers, schools, teaching institutes and e-learning
(14:21:15) rcas: I believe that the two mailing lists are overlapping
(14:21:25) rcas: so there should be different aims for each
(14:22:03) rcas: education ml should be focused on discussing items related to teaching
(14:22:26) rcas: while bf-docboard only focus on Documentation (as it is doing right now)
(14:22:32) Metsys [n=jirc@62-77.69-92-cpe.cableone.net] entered the room.
(14:22:35) Gabio: bf-docboard should be for the docu
(14:22:43) rcas: yes Gabio
(14:23:17) rcas: bf-docboard should be only for Documentation and the editing of the books and such
(14:24:03) rcas: In Education ml, I will push the focus more on "physical" things
(14:24:13) rcas: Such as workshops and coordinate them
(14:24:24) rcas: And also help Companies
(14:24:50) rcas: And help create Diplomas and eventually certifications
(14:26:16) rcas: In a near future I was hoping to create an affordable Multimedia Open Source School
(14:26:27) rcas: but that is a huge goal, it will take time
(14:26:45) mifune: that's huge, yes
(14:26:50) elubie: that *is* a huge goal
(14:27:12) rcas: I think it has a market and people to attend to it
(14:27:22) rcas: With some help from the UE
(14:27:36) rcas: To make it as cheaper as possible
(14:28:00) rcas: If you want to do an animation course, you have to pay big bucks
(14:28:25) rcas: I was hoping to use Open Source tools and provide the same level of education, but at a lower price
(14:28:40) rcas: Creating an Organization for it
(14:28:55) rcas: Sponsored by the UE and some other Organizations
(14:29:04) rcas: But that is another thing
(14:29:05) elubie: rcas: I do think it could attract people.
(14:29:16) rcas: yes
(14:29:17) rcas: back to topic
(14:29:37) rcas: So, the focus of education ml has been a bit shifted
(14:29:47) rcas: I will make it go back on track now
(14:30:07) rcas: For DocBoard I will e-mail Steffano
(14:30:42) rcas: so we can coordinate this better, by shifting any non docboard items to education ml
(14:30:56) rcas: any thoughts or ideas ?
(14:32:34) rcas: Ok, settled then, next item
(14:32:43) rcas has changed the topic to: 4. Define goals for 2006 for each board
(14:33:10) rcas: Since there is no one from DocBoard that can define some goals
(14:33:19) rcas: I will focus on goals for Education ml
(14:33:23) elubie: rcas: you could define goals and main topics for bf-education and set the main focus that is different from what docboard
(14:33:35) rcas: yes
(14:33:43) elubie: hehe, just what I wanted to suggest ;)
(14:33:57) rcas: suggestions are always welcome ;)
(14:34:22) rcas: My main goal for 2006 on the Education ml is a worldwide workshop tour
(14:34:28) rcas: explaining it a bit better
(14:34:45) rcas: I want to spread the word on Blender
(14:35:11) rcas: And I believe that the best way to do that is letting people know it and see it
(14:35:17) elubie: sounds cool
(14:35:32) rcas: My idea can be accomplished in one of two ways
(14:35:57) rcas: The first one I must talk to the head master for approval
(14:36:03) benstabler [n=chatzill@bb-87-82-10-185.ukonline.co.uk] entered the room.
(14:36:27) rcas: One is to get a team of three people to do do workshops for three months around the globe
(14:36:44) Metsys: is that plan two?
(14:36:53) rcas: Metsys: plan one
(14:36:57) Metsys: oh, okay
(14:37:35) rcas: In case it can't be done, the other one is to have several people around the globe coordinating local workshops
(14:37:48) rcas: And try to do all the workshops in sync
(14:38:00) Metsys: That seems more likely
(14:38:02) rcas: Having the same day for every workshop
(14:38:22) rcas: Metsys: yes, but if number one could be done, it would be really good
(14:38:38) rcas: That is my first aim for Education ml
(14:38:57) rcas: Second aim is to help the DocBoard in the creation of a teachers book
(14:39:16) rcas: A teachers book differs somewhat from the average book
(14:39:26) elubie: rcas: first one would be a bigger event I guess, though the second one also has appeal - creating a kind of local community
(14:39:41) rcas: elubie: yes
(14:40:23) Gabio: My goal in docboard would be to get the online manual up to a release ready state so a blender 2.4x guide  can be made.
(14:41:03) maccam912 [n=maccam91@71-10-127-82.dhcp.stpt.wi.charter.com] entered the room.
(14:41:10) rcas: The third aim for Education ml is to create a "manual" for any school or any company interested in teaching Blender, kind of guide lines for the creation of the content for it and what should be used and several links that can help out
(14:41:30) rcas: this would eventually lead to the Certification aim
(14:41:49) rcas: but the Certification is still far away, perhaps next year
(14:41:58) rcas: Gabio: yes, that is quite a goal
(14:42:12) Gabio: and for now finished my anim section :x
(14:42:36) Gabio: *finishing
(14:42:39) rcas: elubie: Maybe we can do both
(14:42:54) rcas: Gabio: great
(14:43:04) elubie: rcas: yes, sure - one is not exclusive of the other
(14:43:18) elubie: At what level is the teachers book planned?
(14:43:32) rcas: We must define the scope better
(14:43:48) elubie: Gabio: Yes, a 2.4x guide would be nice
(14:43:48) rcas: But my aim was to have lots of exercices
(14:44:01) rcas: And have also lots of Q&A
(14:44:06) maccam912: yeah, have more projects
(14:44:08) Gabio: sadly I can't stay any longer but i'm always accessible on #blenderwiki and on the docboard mailing list.
(14:44:22) rcas: Gabio: ok
(14:44:29) maccam912: like in the 2.3x book, there is only one, the gingerbread one
(14:44:30) Gabio: so next week?
(14:44:35) maccam912: I would like more of those
(14:44:42) Gabio: you get a lot more ^_^
(14:44:44) rcas: Gabio: probably in two weeks
(14:44:46) Gabio: k
(14:44:51) rcas: Gabio: but it will be in the ml
(14:45:04) rcas: maccam912: exactly
(14:45:09) elubie: rcas: sure, but a teachers book can be for like 11 year olds of for college students, so style and aim must be different
(14:45:29) elubie: *or
(14:45:39) rcas: elubie: yes, it must be discussed further
(14:45:55) Metsys: maccam: For projects like that, it's better to have much smaller ones than the gingerbread man. Depending on how it's taught to students, it can be hard for people to follow along.
(14:45:55) rcas: Education ml has some fine teachers and others that can help on this
(14:46:17) mifune: rcas: |osiris made a "book" with some exercises. but its in dutch, not in english.
(14:46:19) maccam912: yeah, but more like that
(14:46:24) maccam912: or even just tips on stuff
(14:46:33) maccam912: and a website with the projects
(14:46:39) rcas: mifune: I know, it will be looked at
(14:46:51) Metsys: I was thinking really really short excercises, like a few steps
(14:47:05) elubie: rcas: yes, I think it will be nice to have exercises and smaller tuts
(14:47:15) maccam912: Metsys yeah, that sounds good
(14:47:22) aleppax: it is possible to set up a CMS accessible by teachers and schools, to share lessons and exercices between schools. and even (eventually) to manage classes and votes.
(14:47:29) Metsys: I'm actually working on a ton of them for my workshop
(14:47:30) rcas: elubie: teachers like that, it helps out
(14:48:18) elubie: also, I think it would be nice to aslo teach some theory to people without prior 3D experience as opposed to just teaching the app
(14:48:19) Metsys: aleppax: wiki maybe?
(14:48:28) aleppax: like docebo.
(14:48:36) rcas: elubie: yes
(14:48:42) rcas: elubie: also that
(14:48:49) benstabler: elubie: teachers like that hehe
(14:48:52) aleppax: http://www.docebolms.org
(14:48:57) nemyax left the room.
(14:49:02) rcas: but the details we can discuss better in the ml
(14:49:32) elubie: rcas: k
(14:49:40) maccam912: one thing I liked about having less tutes and guides and just small things was that it tells you how to do the most simple things (like with particles...
(14:50:10) maccam912: ) It would show how to do something very simple and you could experiment with it
(14:50:25) maccam912: like it would show particles coming off a cube
(14:50:32) rcas: maccam912: that will be in a Book
(14:50:38) rcas: maccam912: Reference Book
(14:50:51) maccam912: there will be a referance book too?
(14:51:02) rcas: And there are several books being thought upon right now
(14:51:09) maccam912: cool
(14:51:12) rcas: not just one has exists
(14:51:18) rcas: :)
(14:51:19) benstabler: I assume the book will come with a CD?
(14:51:29) Metsys: It better :)
(14:51:31) rcas: most likely yes
(14:51:52) rcas: eventually DVD, deppending on the content
(14:51:56) benstabler: It would be nice to have a verse build included
(14:52:04) benstabler: i think that would be really helpful for teaching
(14:52:20) rcas: what will be in the CD can also be further discussed in the mailing lists :)
(14:52:24) maccam912: yeah, and have the teacher connect to the students comp and show them on their screen
(14:52:35) benstabler: or have team projects etc
(14:52:37) rcas: I would point everyone that hasn't joinned it, to please do :)
(14:52:53) maccam912: yeah
(14:53:14) rcas: so, I think that these are the main goals
(14:53:37) rcas: if anyone has any other goal that would like to see in the list
(14:53:43) rcas: please do so
(14:53:54) rcas: else, will go for the next item 
(14:53:58) maccam912: split the class into 5-student groups and say "model your best human figure in 15 mins" and see see what group is the best
(14:54:10) rcas: maccam912: hehe
(14:54:16) rcas: maccam912: competition is good
(14:54:24) maccam912: it made me a better modeller
(14:56:41) benstabler: rcas: short projects are important, but it might be worth having a few long ones also
(14:56:56) benstabler: for students CV for example?
(14:57:12) benstabler: so they would have to be open ended
(14:57:16) rcas: benstabler: yes
(14:57:30) maccam912: or have just short ones and stretch your brain to connect them into a long project
(14:57:52) rcas: benstabler: but short projects can be defined later
(14:57:55) LetterRip [n=LetterRi@blender/coder/pdpc.bronze.LetterRip] entered the room.
(14:58:01) rcas: hey LetterRip
(14:58:06) maccam912: hi
(14:58:12) maccam912: welcome
(14:58:17) LetterRip: hey rcas - am mostly in the other meeting
(14:58:18) rcas has changed the topic to: 5. Proposal for a better workflow between Devs and Docboard
(14:58:29) rcas: LetterRip: yes, figured
(14:58:39) rcas: LetterRip: will get you up to date in a minute
(14:58:51) LetterRip: sure..
(14:59:29) The topic for #blendereducation is: 5. Proposal for a better workflow between Devs and Docboard
(14:59:37) rcas: damn spam protection
(14:59:53) LetterRip: rcas - heheh
(14:59:59) maccam912: lol
(15:00:12) LetterRip: maccam912 - not offhand
(15:00:19) rcas: ok, last item
(15:00:25) maccam912: ok
(15:00:28) rcas: before people leave to the other meeting
(15:00:43) rcas: Better workflow between devs
(15:00:52) rcas: and documentation
(15:01:12) rcas: I propose we try to get people into this kind of workflow
(15:02:01) rcas: new feature -> propose design -> feature gets into main source -> design is made and approved -> documentation board is notified
(15:02:09) rcas: today this doesn't happen
(15:02:34) rcas: the design is pushed further and further to the end of the time, right next to release date
(15:02:35) LetterRip: well - feature creation is much more organic in open source
(15:03:01) rcas: meaning it ends up leaving few time for Documentation people to get things up to date
(15:03:21) LetterRip: rcas - I've started updating from the logs weekly
(15:03:33) rcas: yes, but coders could try and close the design asap after as feature has been added
(15:03:38) LetterRip: I think that is probably the best we can hope for
(15:03:42) rcas: of course it can have minor changes later on
(15:04:11) maccam912: is there a place to read tutorials or information in one place, like Noob to Pro or blender.org release notes
(15:04:19) rcas: but that would help out DocBoard guys
(15:04:54) maccam912: is there a place with up to date info, that is comprehensive, updated and stuff
(15:05:39) Metsys: maccam: That's what the BlenderWiki is supposed to be.
(15:05:42) LetterRip: rcas - right
(15:05:54) maccam912: where is that tho
(15:05:58) maccam912: the Blender WIki
(15:06:00) maccam912: ?
(15:06:05) Metsys: wiki.blender.org
(15:06:21) maccam912: ok thanks Metsys
(15:06:25) benstabler: i thought that one was closed
(15:06:35) benstabler: isnt it mediawiki.blender.org ?
(15:06:44) Metsys: yeah, that too
(15:06:47) maccam912: wiki.blender.org takes you to mediawiki.blender.org
(15:06:50) rcas: it redirects
(15:06:52) rcas: yes
(15:06:54) maccam912: yeah
(15:06:59) benstabler: oh, so it does
(15:07:07) Metsys: I just tell people wiki.blender.org because it's easier to remember
(15:07:14) benstabler: yeah
(15:07:21) rcas: LetterRip: so, if you can help on this last item, it would be great
(15:07:43) LetterRip: rcas - will see
(15:07:46) rcas: anyone has anything else to say on this last item ?
(15:08:01) rcas: else, I give this meeting as ended
(15:08:05) Metsys: Well, the release notes is where we get the information for new changes anyway.
(15:08:24) rcas: Metsys: it shouldn't be that way
(15:08:25) Metsys: ... so if we just have better release notes, then that should be enough I think.
(15:08:34) rcas: Metsys: there should be a more direct communication
(15:08:35) LetterRip: yep - I plan to propose we start putting bit more info in logs for better release notes
(15:08:48) rcas: great
(15:08:57) LetterRip: ie my commits that had ==python api==
(15:09:02) Metsys: A beurocratic process to get information to us might make it hard on coders
(15:09:08) maccam912: I don't know what to search for, but I want a tute on how to do this   http://orange.blender.org/wp-content/themes/orange/images/blog/screen1.png
(15:10:28) maccam912: what is that, like drivers or something?
(15:10:36) LetterRip: that is in orange branch
(15:10:37) Metsys: maccam: pretty much
(15:10:38) rcas: Metsys: no that, just have things closed earlier
(15:10:43) LetterRip: not in release branch
(15:10:51) LetterRip: so undocumented currently
(15:11:15) maccam912: so who would I email or ask if I have the orange branck
(15:11:24) maccam912: branch*
(15:12:02) Metsys: rcas: a better workflow would be great, if we can do it in such a way that wouldn't bog-down the coders, which is very do-able. I think LetterRip has the right idea, at least for now.
(15:12:08) LetterRip: everyone who is knowledgable about that really doesn't have time currently
(15:12:27) LetterRip: best you can do is read the logs
(15:12:29) maccam912: ok
(15:12:42) maccam912: the logs at orange.blender.org
(15:12:44) maccam912: ?
(15:13:05) LetterRip: no the cvs logs
(15:13:06) rcas: maccam912: nop, mailing list
(15:13:29) maccam912: mailing list? cvs logs? where do I find those?
(15:13:32) LetterRip: http://projects.blender.org/mailman/listinfo/bf-blender-cvs
(15:13:57) rcas: Ok, guess we have the idea then
(15:14:08) rcas: I will give this meeting as closed
(15:14:15) rcas: And will update the wiki later on
(15:14:18) rcas: With minute
(15:14:19) Metsys: okay
(15:14:22) rcas: And logs
(15:14:29) maccam912: ok then
(15:14:38) maccam912: bye then
(15:14:47) maccam912 left the room.
(15:15:01) mode (+o rcas ) by ChanServ
(15:15:10) rcas has changed the topic to: Topic Blender Education Channel :: Meetings - http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Bf-education/Meetings