Org:Foundation/Bf-education/Meetings/Logs/2006 February 26th

(13:29:18) The topic for #blendereducation is: Blender Education Channel :: Meetings -> http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Bf-education/Meetings
(13:29:27) rcas: Hi all
(13:29:59) mode (+o rcas ) by ChanServ
(13:30:21) mifune: 'lo rcas
(13:30:22) Stoyo_InterSpace [n=sstanche@c87-92.cable.netissat.bg] entered the room.
(13:30:32) Stoyo_InterSpace: Hello
(13:30:34) rcas: Hey Stoyo
(13:30:44) rcas: glad for you to join us
(13:30:44) aleppax: hi
(13:30:50) Stoyo_InterSpace: Thanks
(13:31:02) rcas: Stoyo is behind the Project in Bulgaria
(13:31:13) stt_ven [n=chatzill@200.82.237.227] entered the room.
(13:31:31) rcas: He belongs to InterSpace 
(13:31:40) Stoyo_InterSpace: i-space.org
(13:32:13) ianwill [n=chatzill@201-26-47-132.dsl.telesp.net.br] entered the room.
(13:32:39) macouno [n=lolo@ip54578de1.direct-adsl.nl] entered the room.
(13:32:41) macouno: hola
(13:33:03) stt_ven: hola
(13:33:05) Genscher [n=a@62.134.229.30] entered the room.

(13:33:07) rcas has changed the topic to: Meeting Time :)

(13:33:39) rcas: I think we can start the meeting, ok ?
(13:33:45) macouno: I'd say so
(13:33:56) stt_ven: sure...
(13:34:16) rcas: Lets start with the Job opportunity in Bulgaria
(13:34:27) rcas: I think people want to focus on that :)
(13:34:55) rcas has changed the topic to: Meeting :: Job Opportunity in Bulgaria -> InterSpace (i-space.org)
(13:35:06) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: I think you should lead the topic
(13:35:52) Stoyo_InterSpace: First hello to all
(13:36:14) ***macouno ;)
(13:37:24) macouno: Where was the documentation on this... was it in the blender education newsgroup?
(13:37:39) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: why don't you explain a bit better the purpose of the Project and expected dates
(13:37:42) Stoyo_InterSpace: We are media art organisation wich run art and educational projects in Bulgaria
(13:37:49) Stoyo_InterSpace: Ok
(13:38:02) rcas: macouno: there is some info on this on the bf-education ml
(13:38:10) ***macouno found it
(13:39:14) macouno: Ok it looks like there will be 4 modules... are you looking for one person to take care of all of them?
(13:39:33) Stoyo_InterSpace: Now we preapring a preoject for Media program of EU
(13:39:36) Stoyo_InterSpace: http://europa.eu.int/comm/avpolicy/media/index_en.html
(13:39:46) Stoyo_InterSpace: training programe
(13:41:02) lox_federico [n=lox_fede@host148-205.pool8730.interbusiness.it] entered the room.
(13:41:04) Stoyo_InterSpace: We plan to make a Workshop which will be ralated to Open Source tools for Film/Video production
(13:41:21) lox_federico: hi guys
(13:41:34) rcas: hi lox_federico 
(13:41:46) lox_federico: argh... are you omnipresent? LOL
(13:42:32) lox_federico: "We plan to make a Workshop which will be ralated to Open Source tools for Film/Video production"
(13:42:32) Stoyo_InterSpace left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(13:42:34) lox_federico: mmhhhh
(13:42:38) lox_federico: interesting
(13:42:55) rcas: seems he has some connection problems
(13:42:55) stt_ven: ops!....
(13:43:04) macouno: looks like it yes
(13:43:15) rcas: lets just wait a bit for him to get in again
(13:44:01) lox_federico: someone has some good news for us (blendernation)?
(13:44:21) rcas: lox_federico: this topic might be a news
(13:44:38) rcas: lox_federico: that's why I invited you to join in
(13:44:42) rcas: lox_federico: :)
(13:44:51) lox_federico: well+, yes, but the one who0 launched it is no more between us
(13:44:53) macouno: lox Stoyo is from a bulgarian educational organisation... and they're looking for teachers and such
(13:45:10) lox_federico: ohhhh, now it turns to be really interesting...
(13:45:25) stt_ven: hey guys, maybe we can go on to the next topic.... while he gets back
(13:45:55) lox_federico: do you have a premade list?
(13:46:10) stt_ven: there´s the meeting agenda  :)
(13:46:11) Stoyo_InterSpace [n=sstanche@c87-92.cable.netissat.bg] entered the room.
(13:46:16) Stoyo_InterSpace: re
(13:46:16) lox_federico: (sorry, my first time here)
Stoyo_InterSpace stt_ven 
(13:46:30) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: welcome back
(13:46:33) stt_ven: aa.... great....
(13:46:38) stt_ven: go on :)
(13:46:39) lox_federico: hy Stoyo
(13:46:50) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: tell me one thing, how will the workshop work, I got a bit confused with the first mail I got. Is it going to be done in Bulgaria ? And is it just one workshop, or it will be a series of workshops ?
(13:47:07) Stoyo_InterSpace: we need trainer CV's to put them in project documentation
(13:47:36) lox_federico: and what will be the object of this worskshop ?
(13:47:39) macouno: Are you looking for 1 trainer to handle all topics or multiple trainers in multiple areas?
(13:48:01) Stoyo_InterSpace: we looking for multiple trainers
(13:48:24) macouno: lox_federico: I'll paste you something in a sepparate window
(13:48:27) Stoyo_InterSpace: we plan to make series of workshops
(13:48:37) lox_federico: (thanks macouno)
(13:48:40) macouno left the room (quit: Excess Flood).
(13:49:11) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: this will all take place in Bulgaria, right
(13:49:34) macouno [n=lolo@ip54578de1.direct-adsl.nl] entered the room.
(13:49:36) macouno: woops
(13:49:51) macouno: lox_federico: sorry private messages are disabled now
(13:50:18) Stoyo_InterSpace: we have partner from Germany
(13:50:31) lox_federico: (gosh)
(13:51:00) macouno: lox_federico: just look here: http://projects.blender.org/pipermail/bf-education/2006-February/000140.html
(13:51:44) lox_federico: (sweet ;-) )
(13:52:04) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: when will it be ?
(13:52:07) Stoyo_InterSpace: we can change this agenda it's just work copy
(13:52:31) Stoyo_InterSpace: late this year or next
(13:52:41) Stoyo_InterSpace: year
(13:52:49) stt_ven: Stoyo_InterSpace:  is that workshop presential or is it there an online option?
(13:53:09) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: and how long would you expect a teacher to reside in bulgaria?
(13:54:28) Stoyo_InterSpace: it will be a week long in Sofia
(13:54:45) Stoyo_InterSpace: 3 days per module
(13:54:57) macouno: And how experienced do you expect the "students" to be?
(13:56:01) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: is the aim to just do that week, or is it to extent it a bit more
(13:56:06) Stoyo_InterSpace: 3d artists from local studios from Bulgaria,Macedonia, Romania, Serbia, Kosovo, Turkey ....
(13:56:27) stt_ven: Stoyo_InterSpace: is that workshop presential or is it there an online option?
(13:56:31) rcas: I would say pretty experienced students
(13:56:56) Stoyo_InterSpace: no online option
(13:57:01) stt_ven: it seems like an specialization workshop
(13:57:03) Stoyo_InterSpace: yes
(13:57:03) macouno: hehe... yeah so it's more introducing experienced maya & 3dmax guys to an open-source alternative?
(13:57:03) stt_ven: ok
(13:57:30) Stoyo_InterSpace: Yes
(13:58:19) lox_federico: what about partecipation? There will be a fee?
(13:58:28) Stoyo_InterSpace: Yes
(13:58:41) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: is the aim to just do that week, or is it to extent it a bit longer ? In the first doc it had a mention that people would do the worshop in sofia and then would do some more in their own countries, how is this supposed to work ?
(14:00:38) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: this just to understand the project a bit more
(14:00:50) Stoyo_InterSpace: yes, sure
(14:01:27) Stoyo_InterSpace: well, i think it will take place only in sofia
(14:01:40) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: it will only be that week then ?
(14:01:54) Stoyo_InterSpace: Yes
(14:02:15) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: and can you accept more trainers later on, or is it just for the ones that get in now ?
(14:03:01) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: how much trainers were you looking for and how many you got now ?
(14:03:03) Stoyo_InterSpace: It's possible to make more events
spiderworm_work Stoyo_InterSpace stt_ven 
(14:03:41) Stoyo_InterSpace: We got five people from Bulgaria
(14:03:41) stt_ven: rcas: you just take the words out of my keyboard hehe....
(14:03:47) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: I believe that you need people now on the docs to apply for as much funding possible, right ?
(14:04:06) rcas: stt_ven: reading your keyboard :P
(14:04:37) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: another thing, do you accept people outside EU to teach ?
(14:04:39) Stoyo_InterSpace: We have the budget ready
(14:05:13) Stoyo_InterSpace: we need three trainers
(14:05:34) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: in a specific area of expertise?
(14:05:45) Stoyo_InterSpace: That's right
(14:06:03) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: and what would those areas be?
(14:06:09) stt_ven: one for - Textures, Shaders, UV mapping, Rendering with
(14:06:09) Stoyo_InterSpace: Character animator/riging
(14:06:17) stt_ven: other - Armature, Rigging, Animation with Blender3D
(14:06:20) stt_ven: rigth?
(14:06:22) Stoyo_InterSpace: and Compositing postproduction
(14:06:38) Stoyo_InterSpace: exactly
(14:06:42) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: compositing in blender itself using the sequence editor?
(14:06:57) Stoyo_InterSpace: yes
(14:07:19) lox_federico: there is already a site or an e-mail address so that people interested to apply for those roles can send/find infos?
(14:07:20) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: since it will be next year, it will be using the Compositor also
(14:07:24) Stoyo_InterSpace: I wait new node editor to be included in next Blender versions
(14:07:42) Stoyo_InterSpace: i mean for compositing
(14:07:58) Stoyo_InterSpace: yes
(14:08:10) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: There are already test versions available but it's extremely promising
(14:08:17) Stoyo_InterSpace: i see
(14:08:54) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: lox_federico leads the BlenderNation website, if you want you can give him details and he puts the job opportunity online, many people will see it
(14:09:06) Stoyo_InterSpace: our workshop will be included in this list > http://europa.eu.int/comm/avpolicy/media/pdffiles/formcat06.pdf
(14:09:27) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: and perhaps the most crucial question... pay/rewards for teachers?
(14:09:37) Stoyo_InterSpace: and some of participants will funded for travell and accomodation too
(14:09:57) Stoyo_InterSpace: OFFCOURCE
(14:10:09) macouno: But there's no fee for the teaching itself?
(14:10:16) Genscher: cygwin compiles again with pthreads :)
(14:10:20) ***Genscher is happy now
(14:10:42) macouno: Genscher: wrong channel I think ;)
(14:10:42) Stoyo_InterSpace: No fee
(14:10:50) Genscher: sorry
(14:10:51) Genscher: :)
(14:12:13) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: I think I'm missing python scripting in your current temporary module list
(14:12:24) stt_ven: Stoyo_InterSpace: "and some of participants will funded for travell and accomodation too" ....and for trainers?
(14:12:25) Stoyo_InterSpace: the problem is that DEADLINE for call is 1st March
(14:13:24) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: I will send you my CV also, you can see if it is of any use :)
(14:13:55) lox_federico: Maybe publishing an article on BNation will help you in finding some candidates in those 7 days
(14:14:13) lox_federico: well, they're 4 :-P
(14:14:29) Stoyo_InterSpace: trainers will be completly funded - transport, accomodation, fee for trainig
(14:14:45) stt_ven: Stoyo_InterSpace: another thing, do you accept people outside EU to teach ?
(14:14:54) macouno: Ah... I thought you said "no fee" before
(14:15:03) Stoyo_InterSpace: yes no problem
(14:15:11) rcas: lox_federico: perhaps link to the mailing list
(14:15:33) lox_federico: (good idea, thanks)
(14:15:35) Stoyo_InterSpace: I dont understand we will pay to trainer
(14:15:42) rcas: lox_federico: to avoid people mailing Stoyo like mad mans
(14:16:26) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: ok.. that was what I was asking before.. it's clear now.. is there an indication as to the ammount?
(14:16:50) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: In simple words, trainers will get paid to get there, be there and teach
(14:17:51) Stoyo_InterSpace: EXACTLY
(14:19:00) macouno: Yes but it's interesting to know whether it would cover something like a normal freelance fee (which can vary a lot in differing countries)?
(14:19:27) macouno: I'm sorry if I'm asking too detailed questions
(14:19:44) lox_federico: (35 Euros per hour + VAT here in Italy)
(14:20:08) macouno: You see... that's a lot less than what I normally charge
(14:20:11) Stoyo_InterSpace: We can cover 2-3 people on scholarship (wich mean no fee for them)
(14:20:33) Stoyo_InterSpace: I mean participants
(14:20:40) Stoyo_InterSpace: freelancers
(14:20:59) macouno: yes but I think we're more interested in what you cover for trainers
(14:21:05) stt_ven: ok, until now we have this info: when, where, how long, student´s fee, market, number of trainers, trainers conditions and call range
(14:21:07) Stoyo_InterSpace: they will cover only transport to Bulgaria
(14:21:51) stt_ven: so macouno´s question is needed, how much is it going to be the fee for trainers?
(14:22:21) stt_ven: as it says "trainers will be completly funded - transport, accomodation, fee for trainig"
(14:22:47) lox_federico: (but isn't Trainer's wage the right word?)
(14:22:48) Stoyo_InterSpace left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(14:23:00) macouno: And you need to set a Fee anyway beore you apply for a grant for the project
(14:23:04) macouno: woops
(14:23:05) rcas: I think that would eventually be talked to each of the trainers
(14:23:15) stt_ven: ok
(14:23:20) rcas: each one has different fees
(14:23:29) rcas: I don't think it will be equal to all
(14:23:37) lox_federico: well, I think I've all that I need to place a detailed call on BNation
(14:23:37) stt_ven: wage?
(14:23:41) macouno: For a project like this you never know
(14:23:45) rcas: lox_federico: great
(14:24:00) lox_federico: what's next in your list?
(14:24:03) lox_federico: ;-)
(14:24:09) rcas: one second
(14:24:13) stt_ven: ok
(14:24:42) rcas: Libre Graphics Meeting in France, chance to perform some Workshops
(14:24:56) rcas has changed the topic to: Meeting :: 2. Libre Graphics Meeting in France, chance to perform some Workshops
(14:25:00) Stoyo_InterSpace [n=sstanche@c87-92.cable.netissat.bg] entered the room.
(14:25:02) Stoyo_InterSpace: re
(14:25:06) rcas: Hi Stoyo_InterSpace
(14:25:18) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: we got much of the needed information
(14:25:31) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: there will be another call on BlenderNation news site
(14:25:32) Stoyo_InterSpace left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(14:25:43) stt_ven: oh!.....
(14:25:58) rcas: ok, moving to the next item on the list, he seems to be having problems
(14:26:06) stt_ven: hey rcas, do you have the url of the stoyo....
(14:26:18) rcas: which one ?
(14:26:31) stt_ven: one that could be given as reference
(14:26:34) rcas: http://www.i-space.org/
(14:26:36) spiderworm [n=spiderwo@blender/support/spiderworm] entered the room.
(14:26:40) stt_ven: okas
(14:26:56) rcas: going back to topic, LGM
(14:27:08) rcas: I will be at the Libre Graphics Meeting
(14:27:31) rcas: Since Ton can't make it due to Orange, I will replace him at the talk on Orange and Blender
(14:27:39) rcas: But will also perform 3 workshops
(14:27:39) lox_federico: well can I ask You to make some photos for us?
(14:27:51) rcas: lox_federico: :)
(14:27:57) lox_federico: hey wait a moment
(14:27:59) spiderworm: you personally will perform the workshops?
(14:28:01) rcas: lox_federico: there will be someone there for that
spiderworm spiderworm_work 
(14:28:11) rcas: spiderworm: yes
(14:28:23) rcas: I scheduled 3 workshops
(14:28:40) rcas: the first two ones are sure, the third one is still a bit not sure
(14:29:08) Stoyo_InterSpace [n=sstanche@c87-92.cable.netissat.bg] entered the room.
(14:29:08) rcas: Workshop 1 : I will be teaching Blender Basics, the Interface and how things work
(14:29:09) lox_federico: what they will be about?
(14:29:10) Stoyo_InterSpace: re
(14:29:17) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: :)
(14:29:24) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: we got much of the needed information
(14:29:30) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: there will be another call on BlenderNation news site
(14:30:00) rcas: Stoyo_InterSpace: if you want you can stay for the remaining items, to just get a better intel on Blender Education
(14:30:08) macouno: Stoyo_InterSpace: Where would interested parties send their resume?
(14:30:13) rcas: Workshop 2 : Anatomy modeling in Blender
(14:30:14) aleppax left the room (quit: Remote closed the connection).
(14:30:33) Stoyo_InterSpace: OK
(14:30:36) dourmana [n=petko@83.228.112.236] entered the room.
(14:30:57) rcas: Workshop 3 : Anatomy Modeling in Blender -> Detailing the model
(14:30:58) dourmana: hi
(14:31:07) aleppax [n=aleppax@host40-163.pool8250.interbusiness.it] entered the room.
(14:31:30) rcas: Workshop 3 : Blender CVS
(14:31:32) Stoyo_InterSpace: dourmana is InterSpace Director
(14:31:50) rcas: hi dourmana, welcome
(14:32:33) lox_federico: (Stoyo_InterSpace: I'll put a link to the Blender education mailing list, they will send there, if you want me to publish another address feel free to write it here)
(14:32:52) Stoyo_InterSpace: OK thanks
(14:33:11) rcas: dourmana / Stoyo_InterSpace : talking about Libre Graphics Meeting (www.libregraphicsmeeting.org)
(14:33:21) stt_ven: rcas: will you have any chance in that meeting to talk about the blender community?...like i.e. how things are made, how was the begining of the foundation and stuff?
(14:33:48) rcas: So, I will be doing Blender / Orange talks and 3 workshops, and was wondering if anyone was going to be there that would like to also do some other workshops ?
(14:33:54) spiderworm: sorry, what is interspace?
Stoyo_InterSpace stt_ven 
Stoyo_InterSpace stt_ven 
(14:34:32) rcas: stt_ven: I still have to prepare things, but I don't have much time to talk, yet I hope to squeeze as much as possible in it
(14:34:32) Stoyo_InterSpace left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(14:34:36) spiderworm: rcas: i would love to be but getting to france will cost me thousands of dollars
spiderworm spiderworm_work 
(14:34:58) lox_federico: too bad I'm chained here to attend 2 exams in that period, I was hardly working with external renderers this month, it would be a nice topic for a workshop :-(
(14:35:01) rcas: spiderworm: www.i-space.org Art Media Institute
(14:35:42) dourmana: yes
(14:35:46) stt_ven: rcas: i have to prepare a similar material for a seminar on march 22
(14:35:52) dourmana: we have FOSS projects
(14:36:07) rcas: stt_ven: I will put things online after the LGM
(14:36:08) spiderworm: wow... they even have their own linux distro
(14:36:12) spiderworm: pretty cool!
(14:36:14) stt_ven: rcas: maybe we can make an "official"  presentation of the blender community
(14:36:18) dourmana: and we are going deeply into FOSS multimedia
(14:36:24) rcas: stt_ven: perhaps
(14:37:02) rcas: I get the feeling few people are going, at least to any of the present here
(14:37:11) stt_ven: rcas: so anyone that has to make a presentation could have a ready to go, coherent material  to show
(14:37:30) rcas: Anyway, I have stated me going there and that was my purpose, I will now move this to the mailing list
(14:37:32) lox_federico: bad period to make an international meeting :-\
(14:37:48) rcas: stt_ven: that would be good yes
(14:37:49) stt_ven: lox_federico: yes....
(14:37:52) stt_ven: :(
(14:38:07) rcas: I think we can move to the next issue
(14:38:19) stt_ven: yeap...
(14:38:29) lox_federico: ok
(14:38:31) dourmana: it's too short time for us to arrange a participation:(
(14:38:46) dourmana: sorry
(14:38:58) stt_ven: rcas: wait
(14:39:02) rcas: ok
(14:39:05) rcas: waiting
(14:39:12) dourmana: probably stoyo has told you about the project we are preparing right now?
(14:39:18) stt_ven: what about trying some online workshops?
(14:39:36) rcas: dourmana: there is still time, even if it is just a one hour presentation and you be there and check other opportunities
(14:39:55) dourmana:  is it a question to me
(14:40:08) stt_ven: sorry, that was for rcas
(14:40:10) rcas: stt_ven: that is a good question for the next topic I have
(14:40:30) macouno: Sorry but still a question for the interspace people... what person is to be contacted for their project... which is also something lox_federico may want to post cause there's lots of e-mail adresses on the site
(14:40:51) rcas: macouno: mail to the education mailing list
(14:41:08) rcas: macouno: I will make sure to redirect
(14:41:14) dourmana: can i tell?
(14:41:26) rcas: dourmana: you can, but, it will be public
(14:41:30) Stoyo_InterSpace [n=sstanche@c87-92.cable.netissat.bg] entered the room.
(14:41:49) rcas: dourmana: and then there will be the risk of flooding Stoyo with unnecessary e-mail
(14:41:50) macouno: Well if it's a name you can look up on the site of interspace that'll be fine
(14:41:55) rcas: dourmana: but that is your call
(14:42:09) macouno: Just don't put an e-mail adress in here
(14:42:40) rcas: dourmana: if people really want to get involved in Blender teaching they should really join the Education Mailing List
(14:42:52) stt_ven: rcas: with online workshops you can redirect people in the meeting to online trainers worldwide
(14:43:05) rcas: stt_ven: wait for next topic, please :)
(14:43:06) Stoyo_InterSpace left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(14:43:28) macouno: rcas: not everyone will want to mail their resume around a rather public mailing list
(14:43:40) dourmana left the room.
(14:43:47) lox_federico: they don't have tp
(14:43:57) rcas: macouno: they can put they want to participate
(14:44:01) dourmana [n=petko@83.228.112.236] entered the room.
(14:44:02) ***macouno quotes: <rcas> macouno: mail to the education mailing list
(14:44:08) rcas: macouno: I then request their CVS
(14:44:09) dourmana left the room.
(14:44:23) lox_federico: they can only post a link to their site  or something else and be contacted directly from I-space
(14:44:23) rcas: CVs
(14:44:59) rcas: I would really like that people involved in Blender training to register in the Education Mailing List
(14:45:11) rcas: This way it would be easier to find people
(14:45:29) stt_ven: that´s rigth
(14:45:35) lox_federico: yah
(14:45:38) macouno: Well perhaps we should add a topic to todays meeting about that ;) (creating a list of educators)
(14:45:51) rcas: It would be good for us, to have a bigger list of people and for the person itself, cause any job opportunities is posted in the mailing list
(14:46:27) rcas: I think that the Education Mailing list is already a good place, lets not create more bureocracy
(14:46:38) rcas: Can I move to next topic now ?
(14:46:47) rcas: It is a good one
(14:46:51) rcas has changed the topic to: Meeting :: 3. Blender Professionals Portal, relation with Teacher and Institutions
(14:46:53) lox_federico: let's see
(14:47:13) rcas: Ok, there as been talk about a Blender Professionals Portal
(14:47:22) lox_federico: woah
(14:47:29) rcas: people do think that the time as come
(14:47:30) macouno: Professionals as in users or educators or both?
(14:47:35) rcas: both
(14:47:55) macouno: And would it be a sepparate site or in blender.org/elysiun.com
(14:47:56) lox_federico: something like Alias.com is to Maya pros?
(14:48:11) stt_ven: could there be a professional educator that´s not a professional user?
(14:48:25) macouno: of course... it's just where your money comes from
(14:48:29) rcas: Blender now has many features and it can become a Competitor of other packages for Small / Medium companies
(14:48:41) rcas: lox_federico: yes
(14:48:51) rcas: stt_ven: yes
(14:49:06) lox_federico: what a bout the "contrbution" system?
(14:49:15) rcas: contribution ?
(14:49:18) lox_federico: who will publish/supply contents?
(14:49:27) lox_federico: the community itself?
(14:49:32) lox_federico: a specialized staff?
(14:49:44) rcas: The current thinking is that there is Blender.org for Documentation and getting Involved
(14:49:56) rcas: There is Blender.org forum for Developers
(14:50:16) rcas: There is BlenderArtists for all users
(14:50:35) spiderworm: what about using wiki.blender.org to write teaching materials, lesson plans, textbooks, etc ?
(14:50:37) rcas: There is just the need for a BlenderProfessionals for people that do make a living out of Blender
(14:50:56) lox_federico: yes, that was clear
(14:51:09) rcas: The aim of the BlenderProfessionals is a bit different
(14:51:11) lox_federico: what I want to know is the mechanism under the hood
(14:51:35) rcas: The idea is to have a bounty system for new features, people can pay for bug fixing or new features
(14:51:45) rcas: A job system for all sort of jobs
(14:51:58) spiderworm: ah
(14:52:00) rcas: A restricted forum
(14:52:12) lox_federico: people can pay for bug fixing or new features
(14:52:24) Stoyo_InterSpace [n=sstanche@c87-92.cable.netissat.bg] entered the room.
(14:52:29) lox_federico: what about being paid for having fixed/implemented too?
(14:52:31) rcas: Perhaps merge blendernation with it ???, since we wanted to have a daily news site ...
(14:52:33) macouno: It's a good idea... but would there be something like an entry fee since that is how a lot of pro communities weed out the "amateurs" or how else would you do that?
(14:52:43) rcas: lox_federico: bountys
(14:52:58) rcas: lox_federico: you can pay for a new feature or fix a bug
(14:53:00) macouno: didn't they try a bounty for a feature site before?
(14:53:03) stt_ven: rcas: is´nt it like hiring a consulting firm to make the changes that are needed to the actual software?
(14:53:18) rcas: lox_federico: if you did it for yourself without a bounty you won't get a dime, right
(14:53:35) lox_federico: macouno: yes, they did it for the RISC OS ports of Openoffice and firefox
(14:53:43) rcas: stt_ven: yes, similar, but things get back to the community
(14:54:06) lox_federico: mmmhhhhh
(14:54:08) lox_federico: wait
(14:54:21) dourmana [n=petko@83.228.112.236] entered the room.
(14:54:26) lox_federico: don't you think that something like that will get the development contribution frozen?
(14:54:30) macouno: lox_federico: yeah but that may not work for an "open-source" thing... I think an "admission" system would be the trickiest thing here
(14:54:37) rcas: lox_federico: no I don't
(14:54:52) rcas: lox_federico: I think it will be even more development
(14:55:04) lox_federico: well
(14:55:07) lox_federico: there will be more
(14:55:11) lox_federico: if people start to pay
(14:55:22) lox_federico: but no one will continue develop contribution
(14:55:26) lox_federico: if they don't
(14:55:31) lox_federico: once that system will start
(14:55:45) rcas: lox_federico: imagine I am a company and need a feature, if I ask for a feature, maybe it gets implemented, maybe not, but with a bounty coders will be more likely to code it
(14:55:54) macouno: I'm sure it won't stop the development the way it's going already... it'll add to it.
(14:56:01) lox_federico: (today my english sucks... stupid brain XD)
(14:56:01) rcas: lox_federico: no, it isn't really like that
(14:56:27) rcas: lox_federico: you can code for Blender, but there is no one paying you for it
(14:56:41) lox_federico: wel si what is happening with Sky OS/ RISC OS ports
(14:56:56) lox_federico: they've chosen this "ramson-based" system
(14:56:57) rcas: lox_federico: what can happen is companies needing a new feature or a bug fix and they can setup a bounty for any coder to do it
(14:57:23) stt_ven: i don´t think it will work for companies
(14:57:30) lox_federico: " you can code for Blender, but there is no one paying you for it"
(14:57:30) Stoyo_InterSpace left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(14:57:33) rcas: this is to offer a some kind of support for Companies
(14:57:34) macouno: I doubt whether all coders would end up working only through the bounty system
(14:57:35) lox_federico: yes is this the clue
(14:57:51) Stoyo_InterSpace [n=sstanche@c87-92.cable.netissat.bg] entered the room.
(14:57:52) rcas: macouno: me too
(14:57:52) stt_ven: and let me please explain a poing
(14:57:55) lox_federico: I will no more contribute cuz I will not be paid while some other devs will be
(14:57:55) stt_ven: point
(14:58:07) rcas: lox_federico: LOL
(14:58:16) rcas: lox_federico: there is the issue on freedom
(14:58:27) macouno: lox_federico: that may happen with a few coders... but not many
(14:58:27) rcas: lox_federico: while you code what you want, when you want
(14:58:45) rcas: lox_federico: the others code for a specific item for cash, it can be boring
(14:59:16) lox_federico: well, let's not make this discussion "freedom vs money"-centric
(14:59:16) rcas: lox_federico: while you won't be charged for any bug you have on a feature you got in Blender in a regular commit
(14:59:20) stt_ven: if i got rigth the info....a company that needs a feature will have to wait until : first, a bounty coder will appear
(14:59:33) rcas: lox_federico: you will get charged if you were paid for it
(14:59:48) stt_ven: and then the company will have to wait until the new feature it´s been developed
(15:00:10) stt_ven: am i rigth?
(15:00:17) rcas: stt_ven: right
(15:00:19) stt_ven: ok
(15:00:23) macouno: stt_ven: yeah that may not be very efficient, but perhaps coders could "allot" some time so companies could perhaps contact them themselves?
(15:00:29) stt_ven: that´s time
(15:00:33) stt_ven: and uncertainty
(15:01:14) rcas: stt_ven: I won't get into much detail now, but there will be coordination and Developers must go through a circle to be considered trusted
(15:01:30) stt_ven: not many companies will have the time when they´re in a rush to get a contract done or if they have a deadline
(15:01:45) lox_federico: stt_ven: you're right
(15:01:57) macouno: stt_ven: yeah but the professional system will be able to assist them in finding a coder quickly
(15:02:00) rcas: stt_ven: yes, but if they get a 1000 Eur for a features, maybe a day or two later is done
(15:02:07) lox_federico: they will do what other prod companies have done before
(15:02:14) lox_federico: call a programmer to work in their HQ
(15:02:22) macouno: it shouldn't just be "post a request online" then hold your breath for someone to pick up on it
(15:02:22) rcas: stt_ven: it all depends on the company, the cash involved and so on
(15:02:28) lox_federico: and retain the new features for themselves
(15:02:51) rcas: lets not get into much detail on it now
(15:02:53) stt_ven: lox: or...... use another software :(
(15:03:01) rcas: It works, google uses it all the time
(15:03:08) rcas: and so other projects
(15:03:10) lox_federico: yes, or choose a software that just got it all
(15:03:20) lox_federico: eheheh
(15:03:22) rcas: there can be other ways, like the job system
(15:03:26) lox_federico: there's a little diff
(15:03:26) stt_ven: ok
(15:03:32) lox_federico: between google and BF
(15:03:34) lox_federico: ;-)
(15:03:46) rcas: lox_federico: or not ....
(15:04:02) stt_ven: well my point is that too much time and uncertainty must be out of the ecuation
(15:04:19) rcas: yes, agreed
(15:04:39) rcas: things will be developed and they will go through a test phase
(15:04:51) rcas: so, lets not get into much details now
(15:04:56) stt_ven: rigth
(15:04:59) rcas: some more things
(15:05:06) rcas: there will be a forum there also
(15:05:11) lox_federico: ok, let's talk about the portal contents
(15:05:25) rcas: and something resembling an online school
(15:05:37) rcas: where teachers can feature their Courses
(15:05:46) rcas: either for free or for a fee
(15:05:47) Stoyo_InterSpace left the room (quit: Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
(15:06:22) rcas: Don't expect to have all functionality available right from the beginning
(15:06:45) rcas: features will get activated as soon as they passed the test phase and are stable
(15:06:57) rcas: anyway, I just wanted to let people know about it
(15:07:04) lox_federico: o, so there will be a sort of "content filter" in the name of quality and professionalism?
(15:07:16) rcas: and get teachers requesting features in the Education mailing list
(15:07:29) rcas: things that would make sense in a Professionals portal
(15:07:49) rcas: lox_federico: things must be rated and approved
(15:07:56) rcas: lox_federico: moderators and so on
(15:08:03) stt_ven: hmmm....
(15:08:10) rcas: lox_federico: but trying to reduce time to minimum
(15:08:26) lox_federico: I like this part
(15:08:27) rcas: keep things in the middle ground
(15:08:33) stt_ven: every information in the professional portal should be paid
(15:08:41) rcas: no, not at all
(15:09:15) rcas: only some areas can require either a small annual fee or a specific fee
(15:09:41) stt_ven: i should better start from the online course :).......
(15:10:01) stt_ven: first......  about the lox "content filter"
(15:10:18) stt_ven: i think that there should be a distribution
(15:10:24) stt_ven: of roles
(15:10:26) rcas: there will be restricted areas that are available for a annual fee and there are services available for a fee
(15:11:00) stt_ven: the education portal should give the info and the standars and aprove the material that the professionals would offer as paid services
(15:11:17) stt_ven: in order to guarantee the quality of the info
(15:11:19) rcas: the pricing will have some ruling also, to avoid huge fees for some courses and so on
(15:11:28) stt_ven: yes
(15:11:42) rcas: yes, things must get a standard
(15:11:59) rcas: I would like some involvement of the Education list people on this
(15:12:11) rcas: I will make sure to right about it to the mailing list
(15:12:28) rcas: anyway, this is just an informative topic
(15:12:40) rcas: and I will get back to it once there are more news about it
(15:12:50) rcas: I now cannot really stay longer
(15:12:51) stt_ven: and what i said that everything should be paid in the professional portal
(15:13:00) rcas: not everything
(15:13:08) rcas: just some specific areas
(15:13:15) lox_federico: hey
(15:13:16) macouno: How can you make sure it's only professionals then?
(15:13:22) dourmana left the room.
(15:13:25) lox_federico: if you want to see a "standardized"
(15:13:28) rcas: I'm not restraining anyone
(15:13:31) lox_federico: content portal
(15:13:38) lox_federico: go to FreeSoftwareMagazine
(15:13:52) rcas: but the content and aim, even moderation will be taking into account that it is a professionals portal
(15:13:57) lox_federico: they have their article being written by contributors
(15:14:06) rcas: yes, I know
(15:14:47) lox_federico: I like the Professional content site a lot
(15:14:51) spiderworm: it seems to me that a professional site should focus on providing models, materials, etc, not blender functionality
(15:14:56) lox_federico: but still confused about the bounty system
(15:15:10) rcas: I'm not letting anyone out, I just want people that go there to know that it is a professionals corner, so they should act as professionals and not kids
(15:15:12) stt_ven: spiderworm: that´s rigth
spiderworm spiderworm_work 
(15:15:21) spiderworm: the bounty system could cause fragmentation and problems within the developers
(15:15:49) rcas: spiderworm: I don't think so
(15:16:07) spiderworm: if there's going to be a bounty for features system at all, it should be for people to write python plugins that dont have to be committed into the code to work
(15:16:19) rcas: Anyway, the site won't just be the bounty and job system
(15:16:29) rcas: there will be a dedicated forum
(15:16:59) rcas: there will be other things to it, but keep in mind what already exists and what is the aim of a professional forum
(15:17:15) rcas: there can be also an area for models for sale 
(15:17:18) macouno: spiderworm: both should be possible... not everything can be done in python
(15:17:23) rcas: and textures for sale
(15:17:27) rcas: or for free
(15:17:58) spiderworm: if people have been paid to write xyz functionality, and they write it and approach ton with the source and try to commit it to cvs, if Ton doesnt want it, then why put the pressure on him to accept the code so that the developer can get paid?
(15:18:08) spiderworm: macouno: almost anything can be done in python
spiderworm spiderworm_work 
(15:18:35) spiderworm: ... although it may not perform as fast as it would were it compiled in
(15:19:01) macouno: Well you can't do bounty for a feature to get included in CVS... you can have a bounty for a feature that a company needs then have the coder supply the company with the build containing the function
(15:19:09) lox_federico: well, if I can suggest
(15:19:21) rcas: spiderworm: lets not get into detail now, but if kaito or any other code reviewer says it is crappy code then he won't get paid, unless the company wishes to accept it as it is
(15:19:42) macouno: Whether or not a function is included in the cvs should have nothin to do with the bounty for a feature system though you could stimulate reviewing of those features
(15:20:02) rcas: but lets not get into this right now
(15:20:04) lox_federico: If I were You rcas, I would go for a poll on the main Blender site about this "bounty"-thing to test community's reaction
(15:20:08) rcas: there will be the time to do so
(15:20:27) stt_ven: spider: i guess then that there be an official version of blender and the versions of each other companys :p
(15:20:43) macouno: Everybusy was already really enthusiastic about the "bounty for a feature" site that was up a while back... it just never took off
(15:20:58) rcas: because it was a single website
(15:21:05) rcas: this is a more complex portal
(15:21:11) macouno: exactly... it could work as part of a pro portal
(15:21:18) spiderworm: stt_ven: i mean, that could work, but....
(15:21:25) rcas: it isn't just for Bounty or job is for other things too
(15:21:39) spiderworm: wouldnt it be better if whatever was developed via this bounty system were something that could be shared with the entire community?
(15:21:54) spiderworm: with python plugins you can extend the functioinality of blender in whatever direction you want
(15:22:03) rcas: don't just look at the portal as a bounty system or job system, that is just a small area of the whole site
(15:22:07) lox_federico: spiderworm: it will be shared from what rcas said before
(15:22:12) spiderworm: you can pick and choose which py scripts you want
(15:22:33) spiderworm: what was that, sorry
(15:22:45) rcas: anyway, we will talk about this again, once things start to get off
(15:23:05) rcas: It will start with small things, then services will get enabled
(15:23:12) macouno: rcas: any timeframe in mind?
(15:23:34) rcas: macouno: not yet, to much work on my hands right now to focus on it
(15:23:38) macouno: rcas: and where and how will it be realised? a new blenderprofessionals.org?
(15:23:51) rcas: macouno: that was the aim, have a new website
(15:24:05) stt_ven: maco: or blenderpro.org :)
(15:24:09) rcas: this way we would have three main sites
(15:24:19) macouno: rcas: I may be able to help... I do pro webdevelopment.. find me if you need help
(15:24:24) spiderworm: stt_ven: to keep it professional, .com ?
(15:24:27) rcas: Blender.org -  BlenderArtists  - BlenderProfessionals
(15:24:36) stt_ven: spi: rigth
(15:24:36) rcas: macouno: ok
(15:24:47) rcas: the name will be defined later on too
(15:25:05) stt_ven: just ideas flying around :)
(15:25:05) rcas: right now we are talking about what should it feature
(15:25:19) rcas: I would like to merge other existing websites with it
(15:25:27) lox_federico: rcas if you need a news keeping service from us at Blendernation just ask B@rt directly
(15:25:38) rcas: BlenderNation would be a good one to merge
(15:25:43) lox_federico: well
(15:25:56) lox_federico: "merge" is a big word right now
(15:25:59) rcas: but we can talk about it later
(15:26:20) rcas: there is also a website that features Blender models
(15:26:34) rcas: that could be also a good one to merge into Blender Professionals
(15:26:37) rcas: and so on
(15:26:38) lox_federico: yes, we issued it last week
(15:26:45) lox_federico: they have some good quality models
(15:27:05) rcas: trying to get things more centralized, but at the same time not taking things away from people
(15:27:33) rcas: well, I cannot stay any longer
(15:27:37) lox_federico: ok
(15:27:46) rcas: So I would say this meeting is over 
(15:27:51) stt_ven: may we continue this topic in the next meeting?
(15:27:54) lox_federico: nice one though
(15:27:58) rcas: I will make sure to keep people up to date
(15:28:15) rcas: yes, we can talk about it again 
(15:28:21) stt_ven: rigth
(15:28:25) rcas: I will update things tonight
(15:28:36) rcas: And will leave the topic for the next meeting
(15:28:48) lox_federico: when it will be?
(15:28:48) rcas: thanks to all of you for showing
(15:28:59) stt_ven: lox: 2 weeks from now
(15:29:02) aleppax: sorry, I've been busy with a guest up to now.
(15:29:09) rcas: two weeks, means 12/03
(15:29:26) lox_federico: I'll be there, waiting for it to come
(15:29:32) stt_ven: ok
(15:29:34) stt_ven: bye all
(15:29:35) rcas: ok,great
(15:29:39) rcas: bye all
(15:29:41) aleppax: bye
(15:29:43) lox_federico: bye

(15:29:49) rcas has changed the topic to: Blender Education Channel :: Meetings -> http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Bf-education/Meetings