Org:Foundation/Bf-education/Meetings/Logs/2006 Oct 1st

(08:19:12 AM) mifune has changed the topic to: Meeting time
(08:19:53 AM) mifune has changed the topic to: Meeting time: 1. Project status reports
(08:20:25 AM) mifune: i think its best to start with this first
(08:20:42 AM) JD-Multi: yeah
(08:20:44 AM) hhec: ok guys ... who's starting :) ?
(08:20:52 AM) jasonlan: Blender Education NEWS a success,
(08:20:55 AM) jasonlan: ?
(08:21:04 AM) jasonlan: You guys happy
(08:21:22 AM) jasonlan: or too many emails?
(08:21:22 AM) mifune: jasonlan: i think its ok, yes
(08:21:28 AM) Fweeb: jasonlan: I would agree... although the formatting looks weird in text-only email clients (or mine, at least)
(08:21:31 AM) hhec: yes, i like it ... 
(08:21:49 AM) jasonlan: i'll skip a email every meeting day(you should be here for your news)
(08:22:10 AM) jasonlan: yes Fweeb, i'll fix that
(08:22:37 AM) JD-Multi: blender eductation news? Were can I find that?
(08:22:42 AM) mifune: jasonlan: i think it would be nice to have an after meeting report, stating what we have spoken about.
(08:22:54 AM) mifune: JD-Multi: the bf-edu mailing list
(08:23:00 AM) JD-Multi: aah ok
(08:23:11 AM) JD-Multi: I'm in that list, I read them ofthen
(08:23:27 AM) hhec: JD-Multi: that's a good question
(08:23:31 AM) jasonlan: mifune:  ok, that will come the following week
(08:23:34 AM) JD-Multi: btw, it seams that the mailling list send over spam ?
(08:23:52 AM) JD-Multi: since I added me to it, I get daily 10 spam mails
(08:23:52 AM) Fweeb: JD-Multi: I haven't noticed any
(08:24:04 AM) jasonlan: i don't get any
(08:24:09 AM) JD-Multi: strange
(08:24:15 AM) hhec: jasonlan: in the archive section is the news archive ... i put it there to have a quick resume of the year's news
(08:24:41 AM) jasonlan: thanks hhec
(08:25:29 AM) hhec: do you think it is ok? time consuming? simple?....
(08:26:13 AM) jasonlan: I can add the emails from now on
(08:26:42 AM) hhec: yup... just like the mailing list summary ... a quick source of info
(08:27:15 AM) jasonlan: ok, I'll add do it
(08:28:26 AM) Fweeb: As for my projects: a) The feature list is up :)
(08:28:41 AM) mifune: great
(08:29:10 AM) Fweeb: b) I should be having a local workshop on Blender here in the next month or so
(08:29:21 AM) Fweeb: (currently tracking down a venue)
(08:30:22 AM) hhec: fweeb: you can  publish that in the activities section
(08:30:53 AM) Fweeb: hhec: yes I can.  Should I publish it before a date and venue are chosen?
(08:31:09 AM) hhec: so we can start having a record for the statistics
(08:32:00 AM) hhec: Fweeb: it's ok... so people are prevented of an upcomming event
(08:32:12 AM) hhec: and beware of checking for the dates
(08:33:01 AM) Fweeb: Alrighty... will do
(08:33:26 AM) JD-Multi: is there an idea to put those events on blendernation.com ?
(08:33:39 AM) Fweeb: The calendar there works great for that
(08:34:03 AM) hhec: yes... events should be published every where they can
(08:34:07 AM) Fweeb: I've already used it a couple times for announcing screenings of ED
(08:34:22 AM) JD-Multi: ok
(08:34:23 AM) hhec: but here it is mostly for statistics for the annual report
(08:34:35 AM) nemoga [n=nemoga@87.120.12.127] entered the room.
(08:35:17 AM) hhec: welcome nemoga
(08:35:39 AM) jasonlan: hello nemoga
(08:35:55 AM) nemoga: hi folks
(08:36:05 AM) JD-Multi: hi nemoga :)
(08:36:23 AM) mifune: hhec: how is your project going?
(08:36:26 AM) mifune: 'lo nemoga
(08:36:40 AM) Fweeb: hi nemoga
(08:37:12 AM) hhec: the structure is doing fine.... it's adapting to the line ups set by the community
(08:38:05 AM) hhec: like you have noticed the financial committee has been removed
(08:38:30 AM) mifune: jep
(08:38:32 AM) hhec: the training centers link renamed 
(08:38:49 AM) hhec: and the active members reorganized
(08:39:19 AM) hhec: the only thing is that nobody has used their spaces for reporting advances
(08:39:52 AM) Fweeb: hhec: FWIW, that's on my todo for the next day or so
(08:39:59 AM) hhec: the clean up was made today ... removing the members with no activities listed 
(08:41:03 AM) hhec: Fweeb: ok.. no pressure.... remember this is a "now i have the time" kind of thing
(08:41:12 AM) Fweeb: haha, indeed
(08:41:24 AM) hhec: :)
(08:41:40 AM) JD-Multi: hehe
(08:42:58 AM) hhec: also there's a log of changes in "active members/BF-structure"
(08:43:21 AM) hhec: in case any one would like to follow the development of the bfe wiki
(08:43:50 AM) hhec: and... that's all
(08:44:33 AM) mifune: ok, well my project, the workshop is doing fine. im making the document now which im going to use to give the workshop.
(08:45:04 AM) hhec: btw..... spiderworm is missing from the active members list 
(08:45:16 AM) jasonlan: Sorry guy, gotto go early
(08:45:29 AM) mifune: jasonlan: ok.
(08:45:34 AM) JD-Multi: mifune: hehe yeah, I'm writing mine as well :P
(08:45:38 AM) jasonlan: see ya
(08:45:38 AM) hhec: jasonlan: ok... 
(08:45:41 AM) mifune: good bye
(08:45:47 AM) jasonlan left the room (quit: "Leaving").
(08:46:31 AM) hhec: mifune:  no update in the wiki?
(08:47:14 AM) mifune: hhec: im making it in word.
(08:48:01 AM) mifune: and ill probably wont put it online untill after i've given the workshop.
(08:48:01 AM) hhec: mifune: after you finish it would be good to present it to students on institutions related to the field
(08:48:17 AM) hhec: mifune: ah ok...
(08:49:01 AM) hhec: will there be any possibility that the blender conf could be online?
(08:49:04 AM) mifune: in the state it is now its only a guide for me
(08:49:15 AM) JD-Multi: hehe
(08:49:47 AM) mifune: hhec: you could see some presentations live, last year
(08:50:26 AM) mifune: sadly it just broke down when they were showing the ED trailer.
(08:51:00 AM) JD-Multi: hehe :P
(08:51:24 AM) hhec: yes... i saw some of them
(08:51:39 AM) hhec: now.... who's left?
(08:51:56 AM) hhec: we are done with this first topic 
(08:52:00 AM) mifune: i think that was it.
(08:52:09 AM) hhec: ok
(08:52:26 AM) mifune: for this topic ;)
(08:53:02 AM) mifune has changed the topic to: Meeting time: 2. Online training using tools like VNC and VoIP
(08:53:02 AM) hhec: next and let's speed things up a little bit
(08:53:47 AM) mifune: so, does anyone have something to say about this?
(08:54:03 AM) hhec: i really wanted and expected that tom and spyderworm would be here to talk about the certification and its implementation
(08:54:06 AM) Fweeb: Whose topic was this originally?  RCAS?
(08:54:09 AM) hhec: me
(08:54:12 AM) Fweeb: ahh
(08:54:30 AM) hhec: now i can finish explaining the interactive part of the online course
(08:55:02 AM) hhec: u see... in a class there are some info that the trainer passes to the student 
(08:56:01 AM) hhec: that is not in any book ... like an experience in a certain time and moment that is helpful to understand more easily an specific topic
(08:56:42 AM) hhec: so ... when i first attempted to do the online courses
(08:56:49 AM) hhec: i wanted to have that 
(08:57:24 AM) hhec: and let the trainer to be able to watch what the student was doing just in a presential class
(08:57:42 AM) hhec: then the idea of using vnc came by
(08:58:14 AM) hhec: that way the trainer can see and change what the student is doing 
(08:58:18 AM) hhec: for expample
(08:58:44 AM) hhec: when explaining that what looks like a menu at the top is really a window
(08:58:51 AM) Fweeb: my knowledge of vnc is a little rough, how would multiple students be handled?
(08:59:42 AM) hhec: if the student does not understand what to do ... the trainer can aproach him and move the window for him/her 
(09:00:10 AM) hhec: Fweeb: a separate window for each student
(09:00:19 AM) mifune: Fweeb: you can connect multiple clients to a server
(09:00:25 AM) hhec: yes
(09:00:53 AM) hhec: aaa no.. it works with direct connection between the parts
(09:01:12 AM) hhec: i have tried with 2 at the same time
(09:01:26 AM) hhec: in a 512Kbps connection
(09:01:36 AM) Fweeb: Yes... managing multiple vnc sessions from the instructor's perspective could get hairy for more than a handful at a time
(09:01:50 AM) hhec: and it works fine as the refresh rate was set to 1 sec and 256 colors
(09:01:51 AM) Fweeb: handful of students, that is
(09:02:28 AM) hhec: well it's just like in a class room....
(09:02:46 AM) Fweeb: true
(09:03:30 AM) JD-Multi: if I'm right, it is possible with VNC to have a some kind of broadcast idea
(09:03:37 AM) hhec: an instructor is not always watching every one's monitor but from time to time approaches and take a look of the students work and how they manage it
(09:03:44 AM) JD-Multi: were a teacher does something and more clients can connect and watch
(09:04:02 AM) hhec: JD-Multi: yes ... that is possible
(09:04:09 AM) JD-Multi: yes, and reversed?
(09:04:16 AM) JD-Multi: I didn't thought so
(09:04:20 AM) JD-Multi: cause only 1 a time
(09:04:30 AM) hhec: but primarily is for teacher to watch student
(09:04:34 AM) Fweeb: JD-Multi: there'd be a separate window/session for that
(09:05:08 AM) JD-Multi: yes, but then the teacher need more vnc clients connected to multiple servers?
(09:05:27 AM) Fweeb: exactly
(09:05:32 AM) hhec: there is only one client.... the teacher
(09:05:38 AM) JD-Multi: btw, is the class going to be over the internet?
(09:05:44 AM) JD-Multi: of in a physical room
(09:05:47 AM) JD-Multi: *or
(09:05:58 AM) hhec: every student is running the server version 
(09:05:58 AM) JD-Multi: and vnc more a monitor tool?
(09:06:07 AM) Fweeb: this is for online training
(09:06:11 AM) JD-Multi: aah ok
(09:06:12 AM) hhec: the classes could be over the internet
(09:06:19 AM) JD-Multi: yes
(09:06:24 AM) hhec: and wherever people likes
(09:06:40 AM) JD-Multi: remember that not everyone can configure a router :) (is a problem)
(09:06:42 AM) hhec: i have already trained some people this way 
(09:06:49 AM) JD-Multi: yeah
(09:06:50 AM) Fweeb: hhec: I think this is a good solution (especially considering it may be a while before verse has the necessary capabilities for teaching Blender online)
(09:07:00 AM) hhec: JD-Multi: no problem
(09:07:06 AM) JD-Multi: ok
(09:07:15 AM) JD-Multi: hhec: I mean setting up a server
(09:07:34 AM) JD-Multi: I can to do that here, but it won't broadcast until I open a port
(09:07:41 AM) hhec: there's a company that offer a web based remote assistance tool that needs no configuration from the client
(09:07:42 AM) JD-Multi: manually
(09:08:10 AM) hhec: but it cost 100$ monthly or so if i remember well
(09:08:26 AM) JD-Multi: isn't there a tool to minotr multiple webcams?
(09:08:37 AM) hhec: hmm... dunno
(09:08:39 AM) JD-Multi: and make the webcam campture screen
(09:08:57 AM) Fweeb: webcam video quality isn't really well suited for this, though
(09:09:03 AM) hhec: nope.
(09:09:05 AM) JD-Multi: aah yeah
(09:09:28 AM) hhec: and you cannot set the colors, resolution and fps of the feed
(09:09:52 AM) JD-Multi: yeah
(09:10:07 AM) hhec: and more important... trainer would not be capable of controlling the student's blender
(09:11:10 AM) hhec: so... until now the class can be recreated with.... trainer can see student.... trainer can control student's blender... 
(09:11:17 AM) hhec: now the voice
(09:11:29 AM) JD-Multi: teamspeak
(09:11:32 AM) JD-Multi: :)
(09:11:46 AM) JD-Multi: you can setup a server and have more then 100 people in it
(09:11:51 AM) hhec: i tried skype as a good solution
(09:12:06 AM) hhec: good quality and easy set up
(09:12:08 AM) JD-Multi: yes, but can you control clients ?
(09:12:12 AM) hhec: chat
(09:12:24 AM) hhec: and webcam capable
(09:12:40 AM) hhec: JD-Multi: with the vnc ...yes
(09:12:54 AM) hhec: take a look here
(09:12:56 AM) hhec: http://www.famatech.com/
(09:13:37 AM) Fweeb: the only thing with voice (in a team/chat mode) is that it makes it a little difficult to offer semi-private individual assistance
(09:13:43 AM) BackiZ [n=fruitstu@niwg-z-77ec.adsl.wanadoo.nl] entered the room.
(09:13:52 AM) Fweeb: For example
(09:13:53 AM) JD-Multi: fweeb, teamspeak does
(09:14:10 AM) JD-Multi: you can make it so there is a channel for classroom, channel private, and such
(09:14:19 AM) hhec: Fweeb: yes.... just like an open frequency radio
(09:14:30 AM) JD-Multi: drag people into channels, password them, set voice, operator and much more
(09:14:41 AM) JD-Multi: you can even make more channels to put people in teams
(09:14:46 AM) Fweeb: If you have two students... they might not see each others' VNC sessions...
(09:14:54 AM) JD-Multi: yes
(09:15:00 AM) JD-Multi: that's problem with vnc
(09:15:07 AM) hhec: no
(09:15:13 AM) Fweeb: talking to one about his particular issue would prove distracting to the other, no?
(09:15:31 AM) JD-Multi: fweeb, drag into another channel :P
(09:15:34 AM) JD-Multi: with ts
(09:15:52 AM) JD-Multi: I have a ts server running here, can give a nice tryout :)
(09:15:54 AM) hhec: it's a double edged knife....
(09:16:06 AM) hhec: just like in a presential class 
(09:16:14 AM) Fweeb: hhec: fair enough
(09:16:44 AM) hhec: up until know that's the combination that has worked for me
(09:16:50 AM) hhec: radmin / skype
(09:17:21 AM) JD-Multi: hhecc: I used TeamSpeak and VNC when trying to learn a few people using blender game engine :)
(09:17:22 AM) hhec: plus the theorical  and practical material 
(09:17:35 AM) Fweeb: In which, case, it's been proven to work and my concerns are needless :)
(09:17:40 AM) hhec: i'll check teamspeak 
(09:17:44 AM) JD-Multi: :)
(09:17:54 AM) JD-Multi: it's really perfect for this
(09:18:07 AM) JD-Multi: we have a complete clan of 150 people on it when gaming
(09:18:16 AM) JD-Multi: and organised well in channels
(09:20:30 AM) hhec: JD-Multi: we can talk about teamspeak later in the week? will you be around?
(09:20:35 AM) Fweeb: This technique would perhaps also be a good way for remote students to "sit in" on live (presential?) courses
(09:20:53 AM) hhec: Fweeb: yes... and that's the idea
(09:21:00 AM) JD-Multi: hhec: very bussy at the moment, but sure I'll be online somewhere in this week
(09:21:47 AM) mifune: shall we go to the next point?
(09:21:58 AM) hhec: Fweeb:  look at the possibilities ..... every time a community member is organizing an event could have a help for workshops from others memebers
(09:22:28 AM) hhec: mifune: shure... i hope the topic has been well explained
(09:22:30 AM) Fweeb: indeed
(09:23:21 AM) mifune has changed the topic to: Meeting time: 3. The certification program
(09:24:01 AM) hhec: ok
(09:24:52 AM) mifune: i havent read the proposal yet, so i cant give a usefull opinion about that
(09:25:07 AM) Fweeb: I have some questions (like I outlined in the mailing list), but without Spiderworm or Ton here, it's hard to get answers
(09:25:56 AM) hhec: indeed
(09:26:02 AM) mifune: true
(09:26:37 AM) hhec: i would add thou a online class demo
(09:26:41 AM) Fweeb: For one, from the proposal, it's not clear whether the certification is general, for a single topic, or just for that tutorial
(09:26:45 AM) hhec: as an option to the video tutorial
(09:26:51 AM) Fweeb: hhec: good call
(09:27:26 AM) JD-Multi: I've read the certification stuff, but what's the exam to pass to get certified?
(09:27:27 AM) hhec: kind of presentation using the tools we have just talked about in previous topic
(09:27:38 AM) JD-Multi: is it writing a workshop?
(09:27:50 AM) Fweeb: My guess is that it's general and that the tutorial process is an exam of sorts
(09:28:05 AM) JD-Multi: ok
(09:28:12 AM) Fweeb: but it needs to be explicitly mentioned in the proposal
(09:28:16 AM) JD-Multi: and who's going to check if he/she is doing his job ;) ?
(09:28:33 AM) Fweeb: periodic certification renewal
(09:28:48 AM) Fweeb: that's what the panel is for
(09:29:06 AM) JD-Multi: ok
(09:29:29 AM) Fweeb: Eventually, though, certification is probably going to have to be topic-based
(09:30:24 AM) Fweeb: or am I thinking to hard on this?
(09:30:30 AM) Fweeb: too*
(09:30:51 AM) JD-Multi: mmh, well it depends on what certificate
(09:31:00 AM) JD-Multi: modeling, will be a modeling tutorial/workshop
(09:31:19 AM) JD-Multi: or basics, will be giving a workshop about blender's basics
(09:31:51 AM) hhec: this is just the propossal for the working enviroment of certifications.....details like how a topic would be i suppouse that is going to be defined later
(09:31:55 AM) JD-Multi: I think someone needs to write a scheme on what certificates can be obtained
(09:32:28 AM) JD-Multi: aah ok
(09:32:44 AM) Fweeb: by the panel... I see
(09:33:13 AM) hhec: for me is too early to make deep comments.... as i need time to read it 3 or 4 times and think about all the possibilities that i can....
(09:34:24 AM) Fweeb: agreed
(09:35:00 AM) Fweeb: I've read it a few times... both before and after it was revised.
(09:35:02 AM) hhec: but in an early stage of analysis is just the "presential online" the one that is missing from the big picture
(09:35:18 AM) Fweeb: Exactly
(09:35:49 AM) Fweeb: That and a few other things needs to be more explicitly addressed in the proposal
(09:37:15 AM) hhec: well... i think it would be good for now.... discussion about the bfct can be handled over the mailing list
(09:38:10 AM) hhec: and guys remember to update your spaces for advances
(09:38:13 AM) Fweeb: Hopefully, also, we'll have the opportunity to discuss it at length during the confernece
(09:38:25 AM) Fweeb: (for those of us going ;))
(09:38:36 AM) hhec: :(
(09:38:42 AM) mifune: Fweeb: there is
(09:39:33 AM) JD-Multi: :)
(09:39:38 AM) ***mifune should read better
(09:39:55 AM) mifune: anyway, rcas told me that it was sunday
(09:40:16 AM) JD-Multi: aah
(09:40:25 AM) Fweeb: Great!  I do remember reading about that on the schedule, I believe
(09:40:47 AM) JD-Multi: is there a conference schedule ?
(09:40:56 AM) JD-Multi: or still need to be made
(09:41:45 AM) Fweeb: JD-Multi: http://www.blender3d.com/cms/Blender_Conference.52.0.html
(09:41:54 AM) Fweeb: there's a quick glance schedule in that link
(09:42:29 AM) JD-Multi: aah ok, no I ment the detailed one ;)
(09:42:33 AM) JD-Multi: not there yet :P
(09:42:44 AM) JD-Multi: so I can plan what to do durning the conference
(09:42:56 AM) JD-Multi: last year I didn't, and missed a few things I wanted to join
(09:43:35 AM) hhec: can i send a droid in my place? :(
(09:44:05 AM) Fweeb: hhec: if you'd like, I can make a puppet and give it a name tag with your name on it
(09:44:07 AM) Fweeb: :)
(09:44:28 AM) Fweeb: then, at least, you'll be there in spirit
(09:44:31 AM) hhec: jajaja... no voodoo stuff?
(09:44:39 AM) ***mifune ends this meeting, btw
(09:45:04 AM) hhec: mifune: close & lock =)
(09:45:16 AM) nemoga left the room ("Leaving").
(09:45:27 AM) mifune has changed the topic to: meetings: http://mediawiki.blender.org/index.php/Bf-education/Meetings